Long After the Race - II
This post is not available on Oh God! Where Art Thou!
One evening, as usual, the Rabbit and the Tortoise, having nothing better to do, talk on things they have no clue on, trying to find the answer. Read on...
To read "Long after the Race - I" click here
Rabbit: am reading the summary of the katha upanishad
Tortoise: okie... and what does it say?
Rabbit: So there is this character called Nachiketas who is in conversation with Yama and is asking him what death is and what lies beyond. So yama is teaching him.
Tortoise: Death is a point on the timescale beyond which mortals have no existence the soul vaporizes.... tissssshhhhhhhhhh…. poooof
Rabbit: noooot really the body vaporizes, the soul is eternal and cannot be destroyed
Tortoise: HAR HAR HAR (Mocks at Rabbit) The soud is your body, your thought, everything that maketh you You! Without ‘you’ only the ideas and thoughts remain.
Silence… as both Rabbit and Tortoise ponder over their new finding….
Tortosie: The soul is a non-existent being to whom we would like to attribute our success and failures, more predominantly failures….
Rabbit: (interrupting) wait now you are contradicting yourselves.
Tortoise: (Continuing) it is basically ones alter ego
Rabbit: So if on one hand you are calling it our thoughts, our alter ego, then how can u say that its non existent?
Tortoise: I meant that the soul as a soul is non existent. Your thoughts may be yours or designed by your alter ego.
Rabbit: my god!
Tortoise: Yes my child!
Rabbit: so if thoughts are the soul, in your words then the soul does exist.
Tortoise: nooo....
Rabbit: Then a soul as a soul does exist it is that essence of you.
Tortoise: Soul does not exist! Thoughts are yours and not your souls...
Rabbit: (interrupting) But you said soul is nothing but one’s thoughts….
Tortoise: (Continuing)and your alter ego is your, what do you say, selfish caretaker. You listen to it for your own good and if your good is for universal good then that becomes your selfish need and if its is for your material good, that becomes your selfish need
Rabbit: So in context with the soul???
Tortoise: Nothing to context it with soul because it does not exist. It is something that we want to point to but when the something is not there. We just point towards the soul.
Rabbit: So basically you are saying that the soul is something material in nature?
Tortoise: You should be paying me…
Rabbit: Why? You are making no sense (Grinning)
Tortoise: For alternate ideologies (Smiling) Basically we human are material and the soul has no space here as it does not exist and if something does not exist how can I say ‘That’ is ‘This’?
Rabbit: That is your interpretation. I need to read what it means before i can make my stand
Tortoise: Tat Twam Asi..... the three words that says it all...Thou art that in lay man’s terms
Rabbit: yeah Mr. Tortoise! That totally clarified it for me Thou art that!
At this point Tortoise is typing frantically into his computer.
Tortoise: (Reading out form his screen) "You are God". You are God and your being is Godly. Thus, it incites a person to think, feel and express 'big' in a Masterly manner; leaving behind all trivialities. Narrowness is an impediment; vastness has all powers.
When you think in boundarylessness, there is nothing left but "Yours". When there is nothing other than "Yours", the distinction of "Mine and Yours" disappears or loses its very meaning. And, where everything is "Yours", you cannot cling to it, nor can you hold a part of it to claim your possession.
There is nothing to keep under your custody - because everything is yours. You are free. This state is possible at the psychic level only. So a broad psyche is GOD. (And then smiling says) WIKIPEDIA Thank You
Rabbit: I don’t like wikipedia when it comes to these things!
Tortoise: (laughing) but this is a very close... What do youu say? A down to earth explanation of tat Twam Asi? I know wut Tat Twam Asi means ... but its too tough to explain but this guy who put it has put it nicely.
Rabbit: I shall read what I have about the chandogya upnishad and let you know what I think
Tortoise: (Continues laughing) what amuses me is that this was all in like 10C BC that was like much before any other sort of philosophy came up.
Rabbit: amuses why? I thinks that is why it happened, who has the time these days? …
Tortoise: (puzzled look.. says nothing)
Rabbit: …Who has the brains?
Tortoise: I mean... the greeks had zilch until much later than that
Rabbit: yeah....sad it is
Tortoise: And they don’t have something that encapsulates the "Whole"…“Akhilam”
Rabbit: funny… you know
Tortoise: But they gave bits and pieces on good
Rabbit: I am having the exact same convo with another friend on the internet (pointing to her laptop) and the thing is it wasn’t me who brought up the topic
Tortoise: of?
Rabbit: Indian saints knowing all this so early on and now all philosophy is concentrated on the west
Tortoise: nope...that is populist! The problem is, to understand Indian philosophy one must shed all presumptions and start with an empty head
Rabbit: Easier said than done
Tortoise: It is tough that is why I have a tough time in explaining Tat-Twam-Asi
Rabbit: Oh really… (Mocking)
Tortoise: which means I still have a lot to learn on it
Rabbit: anyways I don’t want an explanation from you as that would be your interpretation of it, ideally. I guess I should read the upanishad
Tortoise: For me its simple... if I understand I can explain... else i need to understand it more clearly
Rabbit: But for now i'll read what lit I have with me on it. Philosophy is never easily explained.
Tortoise: it is understood rather..
Rabbit: That is what makes it so much fun (Grinning)
Tortoise: Hehe, for me its not merely fun it would give the answer to.... probably,,, to what am seeking.. That is ... why are we living?
Rabbit: Are you asking the right questions?
Tortoise: dunno... but i guess I am on the right direction....
Rabbit: You know I respect philosophy for everything it is and I know that it would lead me to all the right things but to me.... it is not necessarily about salvation or nirvana. To me it is basically about getting through life, it got me thru school, and that is why I love philosophy. I don’t really want to know what I am living for as long as I know every moment is made use of atleast when am not lazy
Tortoise: Mine is a singular agenda... why do we exist... The purpose of beings being where they are and what they are supposed to do.... I don’t know man... I am very curious... and probably I will never find the answer... probably there is no answer.
Rabbit: But how practical is that and meanwhile what about the life u are living? What about the time that goes past? How are u making use of that time u have? Was it worth it?
Tortoise: In finding the answer
Rabbit: c'mon
Tortoise: no no.... no we are taking wrong tracks here.... As i told you... we should shed all our thoughts before we try to understand it. If we try to include life into it before even we understand the concept of manu... it would make matters more complex and difficult understand and that would throw back... 20 years of trying to understand 5 minutes of philosophy.
Rabbit: Okay! I know u have been reading a lot of Indian philosophy and you know a lot of the terminology but I don’t, so use simpler words for understanding sake
Tortoise: You know Manu?
Rabbit: NO I DON’T!
Tortoise: The first life form according to Hindu mythology
Rabbit: okay look, my question is you are seeking to find answer to the question of "the purpose of beings being where they are and what they are supposed to do....", but isn’t living your life part of this purpose? Isn’t being here part of it?
Tortoise: may be ... may be not I dont have a answer. I mean, I don’t have a definite answer... nor anything remotely close that can explain it
Rabbit: I totally understand seeking the answer but at the end of it all there has to be an outcome. So, maybe, living is the answer?
Tortoise: Probably yes. But I am in search of something that does not have a answrer. All this must probably be chance and I am just going round in circles trying to find the point.
Rabbit: may be you arr looking too hard
Tortoise: all this are assumptions...
Rabbit: My point is why let time go by?
Tortoise: And lets not discard it al together...
Rabbit: how are u spending ur life? how is the time spent?
Tortoise: That is immaterial at this point in time and I don’t like the tone of that question. (Smiling)
Rabbit: C'mon Mr. Tortoise. If you believe in karma siddhanta, at the end of it all there is an account of all the things you did and you next birth is a consequence of that and you have to be able to answer for all the things you've done good or bad. Can u? Forget all that what I mean to say is… I totally support your quest in seeking to answer the ultimate question but in the mean while what is happening to the life that is being questioned? If the seeking is enriching your experience of living in some sort of way then, yeah it worth it all but can u say it is?
Tortoise: point... but one crucial..point with respect to me is that i don’t believe in Karma and siddhanta. I don’t believe in the account book of life which will be reviewed in heaven which is non existent or Hell that is this life ...kidding
Rabbit: yeah i guessed so I said forget it and so took another route.. yeah forget all that i said a lot more things after that ..
Tortoise: All that will be answered by one question and that is what i am seeking
Rabbit: right! To me u know what it seems like?
Tortoise: what?
Rabbit: and this might piss u off!
Tortoise: Nope.. Probably because I know.
Rabbit: But to me it seems more like this is only an excuse. I know you are taking efforts. You obviously read a lot about these things but what about everyday?
Tortoise: hmmm.. wut about everyday...I am living it
Rabbit: no you are not…
Tortoise: in the best possible way i can...
Rabbit: i dont think so! Can u justify the word best ? How positively are you living your life? Or are you just scraping thru it? Are you happy with your life? Are you happy with your life? Are you doing things you want to do?
Tortoise: It depends on the point of view and what one seeks… Probably scrapping through it because, right now there isn’t a purpose.
Rabbit: c'mon! So find a purpose! See this is what am talking about. THIS is it! You know earlier when you said u think you might be going round in circles this is it!
Tortoise: I might not be doing all the material things I probably wanted... but I am not doing because
1. Probably I really don’t want it as much that I do something about it.
2. May not possess any practical value to me in terms of what I gain from it.
3. Probably the way I look at things are unexplainable and unfathomable by myself
Eeverything is a hypothesis,....even happiness! You are happy about things because you feel that there is nothing, at the current juncture that could make you unhappy, but may be there is something but you don’t know and you just go by that hypothesis. So u are happy!
Rabbit: okay so tell me this! You say nothing else is more important everything else is material. You seek the eternal…
Tortoise: nope... assuming
Rabbit: okay thats the assumption you are going with so what has been the outcome? How has it helped you answer other questions in life? How has it enriched your life's quest? Has it led you to somewhere, to any realization? I know this is not maths, I know things don’t have formulas, but you have to be able to say something and make a stand you can’t say I don’t know
Tortoise: ok listen... most of what i told you are my thoughts based on my own understanding of my leanings... self taught with inputs from few people. To me this learning is something I covet and am proud of and is an achievement that an average Joe doesn’t possess.. My life’s quest has never been sitting along with red hot chick in coffee bar and making out with her... that is your average Joe. For me people who live their lives by the day, no disrespect to them, their purpose in life is material we are humans and there is nothing wrong in being material but these are things that am not comfortable with. So I do what I am comfortable with and yes it has enriched my life quite a bit! I can to an extent live without most of the material pleasure that I was used to or rather still using
Rabbit: hmmmm..... well youu only have to answer to yourselves. These are really intense things to think about.
Tortoise: yea
Rabbit: But as long as they keep you going
Tortoise: Well lets see
Rabbit: Just don’t go the Nietzsche or Kierkegaard way or Tolstoy for that matter. Sartre on the other hand would be a good role model.
Tortoise: (Laughs hysterically).Ah showing off eh!
Rabbit: No.. not showing off and N,K, and T, all gave up on life. Well N lost his sanity K has a very depressing outlook on life which is shared by T. May be it was inevitable, don’t know, but it didn’t happen to Sartre or Heidegger but he has his cons
Tortoise: Why would you expect that with S? or H?
Rabbit: expect what?
Tortoise: To be on the neagtive coin
Rabbit: When did I say that? I said H had his cons
Tortoise: yea
Rabbit: Coz he supported fascism for sometime
Tortoise: But just because people are in philosophy, doesn’t mean there should be a negative side to their life
Rabbit: I never said that! when did i????
Tortoise: assumption
Rabbit: How????
Tortoise: You said "but it didnt happen to Sartre"
Rabbit: yeah he didn’t go crazy! He didn’t lose his mind
Tortoise: i know...
Rabbit: He kept on going and that is what I respect about him.
Tortoise: So when you made that statement it was like ..."it was supposed to be but didn’t"
Rabbit: well I said that because of the way each of them approached philosophy, the way each of them lived.
Their outlook. That was what I meant and that is probably why the three couldn’t take it. But he could and H too, also Simone de Beauvoir… man! I finally got her name right!
Tortoise: laughs… hmm.. Ok ill ket you go now
Rabbit: You know, when i was at the airport I was bored. So took this book out, my upanishad book
and went to the contents and randomly picked Katha Upanishad to read… read some and in between they announced boarding so put it back in. Today after reading about Heath Ledger I googled where death is mentioned in the Upanishads and all of the searches pointed towards Katha Upanishad! And so am reading it now one more part left. I thought it was weird, the fact that I picked it randomly and was left incomplete and then without my knowledge it was the one that I was mebbe meant to read and so circumstances brought me back.
Tortoise: Probably, may be, you never know
Rabbit: but then again....that contradicts my belief, I don’t want to believe in destiny! weird!
Tortoise: You are contradicting
Rabbit: Right now yeah... I know I don’t like the idea of destiny solely because of the way people use it to cover up their failures and although I know, there is more to it… .... its stuck in my head in the wrong way
Tortoise: now you are coming on track
Rabbit: on track??
Tortoise: about the reasoning of destiny and stuff
Rabbit: I don’t like how destiny is abused by people to explain the way their lives turned out. “What could we do if it is destined?” I hate that attitude!
Tortoise: Hehe poor good ol’ destiny.... bruised n battered in someone else’s war
Rabbit: Also hate it when people confuse religion with spirituality!
Tortoise: hmm yea. I don’t hate those people... rather you know... it’s a way of life which they have been taught to follow
Rabbit: yeah ignorant fools!
Tortoise: Remember the last convo we had on rational thinking
Rabbit: You know, the reason I hate these people is because even if they have been brought up that way
they have a mind of their own! Now they are adults! So why not form your own opinions about matters?
Tortoise: No their mind is not attuned toward thinking in a different way. Reasoning for them is based on the "fact" they have been provided with….
Rabbit: exactly! Dead brain cells maketh fools!
Tortoise: So anything would be less than the truth to them... my assumption
Rabbit: Anyways their ignorance will alwyas keep them from ever knowing anything.
Tortoise: But no point in hating them pity them... probably that’s a better punishment
Rabbit: So i guess it shields them from the actuality… aaannyyways! Them is them! Its their life
Tortoise: It is part of our lives, thinking what we think is right.... probably we are wrong.. can we prove? No! And they prove? No! So its way of live
Rabbit: I cud (Grins madly) I dont really delve into these things that much..
Tortoise: So how can you prove?
Rabbit: I don’t see the point in.. well that will take time too much chatting!
Tortoise: Probably that is what they are saying too.
Rabbit: They arer lazy Bums and I am not. Hey.. Read this thing about the Nine unknown men (Pointing to the screen of her laptop, a wikipedia page) Did u know abt this?
Tortoise: Reading… I wouldn’t buy the idea anyways.
Rabbit: Buy it! Am going to go check it out! I think it might have existed.
Tortoise: I don’t think so....
Rabbit: You can call it wishful thinking
Tortoise: It is like those Christian cult stories you get to here so often.... yes this is part of a propaganda... looks that way
Rabbit: Propaganda?
Tortoise: yea. “Some versions of the story include an additional motivation for the Emperor to conceal scientific knowledge: remnants of the Rama Empire, an Indian version of Atlantis, which according to Hindu scripture was destroyed by advanced weaponry 15,000 years ago.” This so BJPisque....
Rabbit: Did you know the vedas have a lot of information on some pretty advance weaponology and war tactics? There’s whole science
Tortoise: hmm nope... never delved into it
Rabbit: Each veda is a different science one about war, one about politics and the likes.
Tortoise: I have haeard about that. Man this thing (Refering to the Wikipedia page) is utter bullshit... not even worth wasting time on...
Rabbit: am going to go look into it anyhow!
Tortoise: You can invest time in being materialist than waste time o this
Rabbit: Well I think for now this is more important
Tortoise: Oh yea… feed your brain with more garbage
Rabbit: If nothing I'll have a story at the end seems to me worth my time
Tortoise: hahah I hate this kind of stories....
Rabbit: It is meant for select audiences only
Tortoise: yea... your kind I guess
Rabbit: Another one of my not-asked-for opinions, I don’t really like listening to the Kanchi Paramacharyas..
Tortoise: Then don’t... I guess even i don’t... actually haven’t ever listened to him
Rabbit: i have and you missed nothing. There’s only this one person I really respect. There was this one scholar who came to the temple and he spoke about the gita but he didn’t preach it
Tortoise: ah
Rabbit: He explained it as analogies
Tortoise: That’s the best way... but for something it isn’t the rite way
Rabbit: he asked us to look at it as a metaphor to real life! And it worked for me.
Tortoise: hmm
Rabbit: Someday I need to get myself to read it I think I should learn Sanskrit!
Tortoise: I need to meet her
Rabbit: Her?
Tortoise: Geeta (Grins) No I wouldn’t put her on the shelf
Rabbit: she’s lived next door to you all this while and you don’t know who she is!
Tortoise: I said i need to meet her... i didn’t say i didn’t know her
Rabbit: All this quest seeking biz seems to have made u very anti social sad Mr. Tortoise! Know thy neightbour before u know thyself
Tortoise: I would definitely... as long as it’s the shiny chick
Rabbit: shiny and chick. Two words I have never heard used together in the same sentence
Tortoise: shiny is the name I guess
Rabbit: Like that!
Tortoise: That’s me... making the impossible possible
Rabbit: So its not an adjective but a noun in this case… good good!
Tortoise: depends on PoV
Rabbit: You go the way of the atmaan!
Tortoise: atman?
Rabbit: yeah making the impossible possible
Tortoise: heheh anyways ... I have to move now... and you go to bed it is almost 3 O’ Clock now!
Rabbit: I shall give it deep thought!
Tortoise: Good Night!
Rabbit: Good Night!
One evening, as usual, the Rabbit and the Tortoise, having nothing better to do, talk on things they have no clue on, trying to find the answer. Read on...
To read "Long after the Race - I" click here
Rabbit: am reading the summary of the katha upanishad
Tortoise: okie... and what does it say?
Rabbit: So there is this character called Nachiketas who is in conversation with Yama and is asking him what death is and what lies beyond. So yama is teaching him.
Tortoise: Death is a point on the timescale beyond which mortals have no existence the soul vaporizes.... tissssshhhhhhhhhh…. poooof
Rabbit: noooot really the body vaporizes, the soul is eternal and cannot be destroyed
Tortoise: HAR HAR HAR (Mocks at Rabbit) The soud is your body, your thought, everything that maketh you You! Without ‘you’ only the ideas and thoughts remain.
Silence… as both Rabbit and Tortoise ponder over their new finding….
Tortosie: The soul is a non-existent being to whom we would like to attribute our success and failures, more predominantly failures….
Rabbit: (interrupting) wait now you are contradicting yourselves.
Tortoise: (Continuing) it is basically ones alter ego
Rabbit: So if on one hand you are calling it our thoughts, our alter ego, then how can u say that its non existent?
Tortoise: I meant that the soul as a soul is non existent. Your thoughts may be yours or designed by your alter ego.
Rabbit: my god!
Tortoise: Yes my child!
Rabbit: so if thoughts are the soul, in your words then the soul does exist.
Tortoise: nooo....
Rabbit: Then a soul as a soul does exist it is that essence of you.
Tortoise: Soul does not exist! Thoughts are yours and not your souls...
Rabbit: (interrupting) But you said soul is nothing but one’s thoughts….
Tortoise: (Continuing)and your alter ego is your, what do you say, selfish caretaker. You listen to it for your own good and if your good is for universal good then that becomes your selfish need and if its is for your material good, that becomes your selfish need
Rabbit: So in context with the soul???
Tortoise: Nothing to context it with soul because it does not exist. It is something that we want to point to but when the something is not there. We just point towards the soul.
Rabbit: So basically you are saying that the soul is something material in nature?
Tortoise: You should be paying me…
Rabbit: Why? You are making no sense (Grinning)
Tortoise: For alternate ideologies (Smiling) Basically we human are material and the soul has no space here as it does not exist and if something does not exist how can I say ‘That’ is ‘This’?
Rabbit: That is your interpretation. I need to read what it means before i can make my stand
Tortoise: Tat Twam Asi..... the three words that says it all...Thou art that in lay man’s terms
Rabbit: yeah Mr. Tortoise! That totally clarified it for me Thou art that!
At this point Tortoise is typing frantically into his computer.
Tortoise: (Reading out form his screen) "You are God". You are God and your being is Godly. Thus, it incites a person to think, feel and express 'big' in a Masterly manner; leaving behind all trivialities. Narrowness is an impediment; vastness has all powers.
When you think in boundarylessness, there is nothing left but "Yours". When there is nothing other than "Yours", the distinction of "Mine and Yours" disappears or loses its very meaning. And, where everything is "Yours", you cannot cling to it, nor can you hold a part of it to claim your possession.
There is nothing to keep under your custody - because everything is yours. You are free. This state is possible at the psychic level only. So a broad psyche is GOD. (And then smiling says) WIKIPEDIA Thank You
Rabbit: I don’t like wikipedia when it comes to these things!
Tortoise: (laughing) but this is a very close... What do youu say? A down to earth explanation of tat Twam Asi? I know wut Tat Twam Asi means ... but its too tough to explain but this guy who put it has put it nicely.
Rabbit: I shall read what I have about the chandogya upnishad and let you know what I think
Tortoise: (Continues laughing) what amuses me is that this was all in like 10C BC that was like much before any other sort of philosophy came up.
Rabbit: amuses why? I thinks that is why it happened, who has the time these days? …
Tortoise: (puzzled look.. says nothing)
Rabbit: …Who has the brains?
Tortoise: I mean... the greeks had zilch until much later than that
Rabbit: yeah....sad it is
Tortoise: And they don’t have something that encapsulates the "Whole"…“Akhilam”
Rabbit: funny… you know
Tortoise: But they gave bits and pieces on good
Rabbit: I am having the exact same convo with another friend on the internet (pointing to her laptop) and the thing is it wasn’t me who brought up the topic
Tortoise: of?
Rabbit: Indian saints knowing all this so early on and now all philosophy is concentrated on the west
Tortoise: nope...that is populist! The problem is, to understand Indian philosophy one must shed all presumptions and start with an empty head
Rabbit: Easier said than done
Tortoise: It is tough that is why I have a tough time in explaining Tat-Twam-Asi
Rabbit: Oh really… (Mocking)
Tortoise: which means I still have a lot to learn on it
Rabbit: anyways I don’t want an explanation from you as that would be your interpretation of it, ideally. I guess I should read the upanishad
Tortoise: For me its simple... if I understand I can explain... else i need to understand it more clearly
Rabbit: But for now i'll read what lit I have with me on it. Philosophy is never easily explained.
Tortoise: it is understood rather..
Rabbit: That is what makes it so much fun (Grinning)
Tortoise: Hehe, for me its not merely fun it would give the answer to.... probably,,, to what am seeking.. That is ... why are we living?
Rabbit: Are you asking the right questions?
Tortoise: dunno... but i guess I am on the right direction....
Rabbit: You know I respect philosophy for everything it is and I know that it would lead me to all the right things but to me.... it is not necessarily about salvation or nirvana. To me it is basically about getting through life, it got me thru school, and that is why I love philosophy. I don’t really want to know what I am living for as long as I know every moment is made use of atleast when am not lazy
Tortoise: Mine is a singular agenda... why do we exist... The purpose of beings being where they are and what they are supposed to do.... I don’t know man... I am very curious... and probably I will never find the answer... probably there is no answer.
Rabbit: But how practical is that and meanwhile what about the life u are living? What about the time that goes past? How are u making use of that time u have? Was it worth it?
Tortoise: In finding the answer
Rabbit: c'mon
Tortoise: no no.... no we are taking wrong tracks here.... As i told you... we should shed all our thoughts before we try to understand it. If we try to include life into it before even we understand the concept of manu... it would make matters more complex and difficult understand and that would throw back... 20 years of trying to understand 5 minutes of philosophy.
Rabbit: Okay! I know u have been reading a lot of Indian philosophy and you know a lot of the terminology but I don’t, so use simpler words for understanding sake
Tortoise: You know Manu?
Rabbit: NO I DON’T!
Tortoise: The first life form according to Hindu mythology
Rabbit: okay look, my question is you are seeking to find answer to the question of "the purpose of beings being where they are and what they are supposed to do....", but isn’t living your life part of this purpose? Isn’t being here part of it?
Tortoise: may be ... may be not I dont have a answer. I mean, I don’t have a definite answer... nor anything remotely close that can explain it
Rabbit: I totally understand seeking the answer but at the end of it all there has to be an outcome. So, maybe, living is the answer?
Tortoise: Probably yes. But I am in search of something that does not have a answrer. All this must probably be chance and I am just going round in circles trying to find the point.
Rabbit: may be you arr looking too hard
Tortoise: all this are assumptions...
Rabbit: My point is why let time go by?
Tortoise: And lets not discard it al together...
Rabbit: how are u spending ur life? how is the time spent?
Tortoise: That is immaterial at this point in time and I don’t like the tone of that question. (Smiling)
Rabbit: C'mon Mr. Tortoise. If you believe in karma siddhanta, at the end of it all there is an account of all the things you did and you next birth is a consequence of that and you have to be able to answer for all the things you've done good or bad. Can u? Forget all that what I mean to say is… I totally support your quest in seeking to answer the ultimate question but in the mean while what is happening to the life that is being questioned? If the seeking is enriching your experience of living in some sort of way then, yeah it worth it all but can u say it is?
Tortoise: point... but one crucial..point with respect to me is that i don’t believe in Karma and siddhanta. I don’t believe in the account book of life which will be reviewed in heaven which is non existent or Hell that is this life ...kidding
Rabbit: yeah i guessed so I said forget it and so took another route.. yeah forget all that i said a lot more things after that ..
Tortoise: All that will be answered by one question and that is what i am seeking
Rabbit: right! To me u know what it seems like?
Tortoise: what?
Rabbit: and this might piss u off!
Tortoise: Nope.. Probably because I know.
Rabbit: But to me it seems more like this is only an excuse. I know you are taking efforts. You obviously read a lot about these things but what about everyday?
Tortoise: hmmm.. wut about everyday...I am living it
Rabbit: no you are not…
Tortoise: in the best possible way i can...
Rabbit: i dont think so! Can u justify the word best ? How positively are you living your life? Or are you just scraping thru it? Are you happy with your life? Are you happy with your life? Are you doing things you want to do?
Tortoise: It depends on the point of view and what one seeks… Probably scrapping through it because, right now there isn’t a purpose.
Rabbit: c'mon! So find a purpose! See this is what am talking about. THIS is it! You know earlier when you said u think you might be going round in circles this is it!
Tortoise: I might not be doing all the material things I probably wanted... but I am not doing because
1. Probably I really don’t want it as much that I do something about it.
2. May not possess any practical value to me in terms of what I gain from it.
3. Probably the way I look at things are unexplainable and unfathomable by myself
Eeverything is a hypothesis,....even happiness! You are happy about things because you feel that there is nothing, at the current juncture that could make you unhappy, but may be there is something but you don’t know and you just go by that hypothesis. So u are happy!
Rabbit: okay so tell me this! You say nothing else is more important everything else is material. You seek the eternal…
Tortoise: nope... assuming
Rabbit: okay thats the assumption you are going with so what has been the outcome? How has it helped you answer other questions in life? How has it enriched your life's quest? Has it led you to somewhere, to any realization? I know this is not maths, I know things don’t have formulas, but you have to be able to say something and make a stand you can’t say I don’t know
Tortoise: ok listen... most of what i told you are my thoughts based on my own understanding of my leanings... self taught with inputs from few people. To me this learning is something I covet and am proud of and is an achievement that an average Joe doesn’t possess.. My life’s quest has never been sitting along with red hot chick in coffee bar and making out with her... that is your average Joe. For me people who live their lives by the day, no disrespect to them, their purpose in life is material we are humans and there is nothing wrong in being material but these are things that am not comfortable with. So I do what I am comfortable with and yes it has enriched my life quite a bit! I can to an extent live without most of the material pleasure that I was used to or rather still using
Rabbit: hmmmm..... well youu only have to answer to yourselves. These are really intense things to think about.
Tortoise: yea
Rabbit: But as long as they keep you going
Tortoise: Well lets see
Rabbit: Just don’t go the Nietzsche or Kierkegaard way or Tolstoy for that matter. Sartre on the other hand would be a good role model.
Tortoise: (Laughs hysterically).Ah showing off eh!
Rabbit: No.. not showing off and N,K, and T, all gave up on life. Well N lost his sanity K has a very depressing outlook on life which is shared by T. May be it was inevitable, don’t know, but it didn’t happen to Sartre or Heidegger but he has his cons
Tortoise: Why would you expect that with S? or H?
Rabbit: expect what?
Tortoise: To be on the neagtive coin
Rabbit: When did I say that? I said H had his cons
Tortoise: yea
Rabbit: Coz he supported fascism for sometime
Tortoise: But just because people are in philosophy, doesn’t mean there should be a negative side to their life
Rabbit: I never said that! when did i????
Tortoise: assumption
Rabbit: How????
Tortoise: You said "but it didnt happen to Sartre"
Rabbit: yeah he didn’t go crazy! He didn’t lose his mind
Tortoise: i know...
Rabbit: He kept on going and that is what I respect about him.
Tortoise: So when you made that statement it was like ..."it was supposed to be but didn’t"
Rabbit: well I said that because of the way each of them approached philosophy, the way each of them lived.
Their outlook. That was what I meant and that is probably why the three couldn’t take it. But he could and H too, also Simone de Beauvoir… man! I finally got her name right!
Tortoise: laughs… hmm.. Ok ill ket you go now
Rabbit: You know, when i was at the airport I was bored. So took this book out, my upanishad book
and went to the contents and randomly picked Katha Upanishad to read… read some and in between they announced boarding so put it back in. Today after reading about Heath Ledger I googled where death is mentioned in the Upanishads and all of the searches pointed towards Katha Upanishad! And so am reading it now one more part left. I thought it was weird, the fact that I picked it randomly and was left incomplete and then without my knowledge it was the one that I was mebbe meant to read and so circumstances brought me back.
Tortoise: Probably, may be, you never know
Rabbit: but then again....that contradicts my belief, I don’t want to believe in destiny! weird!
Tortoise: You are contradicting
Rabbit: Right now yeah... I know I don’t like the idea of destiny solely because of the way people use it to cover up their failures and although I know, there is more to it… .... its stuck in my head in the wrong way
Tortoise: now you are coming on track
Rabbit: on track??
Tortoise: about the reasoning of destiny and stuff
Rabbit: I don’t like how destiny is abused by people to explain the way their lives turned out. “What could we do if it is destined?” I hate that attitude!
Tortoise: Hehe poor good ol’ destiny.... bruised n battered in someone else’s war
Rabbit: Also hate it when people confuse religion with spirituality!
Tortoise: hmm yea. I don’t hate those people... rather you know... it’s a way of life which they have been taught to follow
Rabbit: yeah ignorant fools!
Tortoise: Remember the last convo we had on rational thinking
Rabbit: You know, the reason I hate these people is because even if they have been brought up that way
they have a mind of their own! Now they are adults! So why not form your own opinions about matters?
Tortoise: No their mind is not attuned toward thinking in a different way. Reasoning for them is based on the "fact" they have been provided with….
Rabbit: exactly! Dead brain cells maketh fools!
Tortoise: So anything would be less than the truth to them... my assumption
Rabbit: Anyways their ignorance will alwyas keep them from ever knowing anything.
Tortoise: But no point in hating them pity them... probably that’s a better punishment
Rabbit: So i guess it shields them from the actuality… aaannyyways! Them is them! Its their life
Tortoise: It is part of our lives, thinking what we think is right.... probably we are wrong.. can we prove? No! And they prove? No! So its way of live
Rabbit: I cud (Grins madly) I dont really delve into these things that much..
Tortoise: So how can you prove?
Rabbit: I don’t see the point in.. well that will take time too much chatting!
Tortoise: Probably that is what they are saying too.
Rabbit: They arer lazy Bums and I am not. Hey.. Read this thing about the Nine unknown men (Pointing to the screen of her laptop, a wikipedia page) Did u know abt this?
Tortoise: Reading… I wouldn’t buy the idea anyways.
Rabbit: Buy it! Am going to go check it out! I think it might have existed.
Tortoise: I don’t think so....
Rabbit: You can call it wishful thinking
Tortoise: It is like those Christian cult stories you get to here so often.... yes this is part of a propaganda... looks that way
Rabbit: Propaganda?
Tortoise: yea. “Some versions of the story include an additional motivation for the Emperor to conceal scientific knowledge: remnants of the Rama Empire, an Indian version of Atlantis, which according to Hindu scripture was destroyed by advanced weaponry 15,000 years ago.” This so BJPisque....
Rabbit: Did you know the vedas have a lot of information on some pretty advance weaponology and war tactics? There’s whole science
Tortoise: hmm nope... never delved into it
Rabbit: Each veda is a different science one about war, one about politics and the likes.
Tortoise: I have haeard about that. Man this thing (Refering to the Wikipedia page) is utter bullshit... not even worth wasting time on...
Rabbit: am going to go look into it anyhow!
Tortoise: You can invest time in being materialist than waste time o this
Rabbit: Well I think for now this is more important
Tortoise: Oh yea… feed your brain with more garbage
Rabbit: If nothing I'll have a story at the end seems to me worth my time
Tortoise: hahah I hate this kind of stories....
Rabbit: It is meant for select audiences only
Tortoise: yea... your kind I guess
Rabbit: Another one of my not-asked-for opinions, I don’t really like listening to the Kanchi Paramacharyas..
Tortoise: Then don’t... I guess even i don’t... actually haven’t ever listened to him
Rabbit: i have and you missed nothing. There’s only this one person I really respect. There was this one scholar who came to the temple and he spoke about the gita but he didn’t preach it
Tortoise: ah
Rabbit: He explained it as analogies
Tortoise: That’s the best way... but for something it isn’t the rite way
Rabbit: he asked us to look at it as a metaphor to real life! And it worked for me.
Tortoise: hmm
Rabbit: Someday I need to get myself to read it I think I should learn Sanskrit!
Tortoise: I need to meet her
Rabbit: Her?
Tortoise: Geeta (Grins) No I wouldn’t put her on the shelf
Rabbit: she’s lived next door to you all this while and you don’t know who she is!
Tortoise: I said i need to meet her... i didn’t say i didn’t know her
Rabbit: All this quest seeking biz seems to have made u very anti social sad Mr. Tortoise! Know thy neightbour before u know thyself
Tortoise: I would definitely... as long as it’s the shiny chick
Rabbit: shiny and chick. Two words I have never heard used together in the same sentence
Tortoise: shiny is the name I guess
Rabbit: Like that!
Tortoise: That’s me... making the impossible possible
Rabbit: So its not an adjective but a noun in this case… good good!
Tortoise: depends on PoV
Rabbit: You go the way of the atmaan!
Tortoise: atman?
Rabbit: yeah making the impossible possible
Tortoise: heheh anyways ... I have to move now... and you go to bed it is almost 3 O’ Clock now!
Rabbit: I shall give it deep thought!
Tortoise: Good Night!
Rabbit: Good Night!
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